#40: Jason Kidd
Resume
NBA All-1st Team: 5x (’99, ’00, ’01, ’02, ‘04)
NBA All-2nd Team: 1x (’03)
NBA All-Defensive 1st Team: 4x (’99, ’01, ’02, ’06)
NBA All-Defensive 2nd Team: 5x (’00, ’03, ’04, ’05, ’07)
NBA Rookie of the Year: 1x (’95)
NBA All Rookie 1st Team: 1x (’95)
NBA All-Star: 10x (’96, ’98, ’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ’07, ’08, ‘10)
NBA Assists Leader: 3x (’99, ’01, ’03)
NBA Steals Leader: 1x (’02)
NBA Top 10 Assists: 16x (’95, ’96, ’98, ’99, ’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ’05, ’06, ’07, ’08, ’09, ’10, ‘11)
NBA Top 10 Steals: 12x (’95, ’96, ’98, ’99, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’06, ’08, ’09, ’10, ‘11)
NBA Top 10 Defensive Rating: 3x (’02, ’03, ’06)
NBA Top 10 Win Shares: 2x (’99, ’03)
NBA Top 10 Defensive Win Shares: (’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’06)
NBA Career Assists: 2nd
NBA Career Steals: 2nd
NBA Career Defensive Win Shares: 12th
NBA Career Win Shares: 30th
Starter for One NBA Champion: ’11 Mavericks
Best Player on Two Runner-Ups: ’02 Nets, ’03 Nets
Simmons Pyramid Ranking (2010): 43rd
Slam Magazine 500 Ranking (2011): 28th
There’s a pretty lengthy plus/minus list for Jason Kidd.
Plusses: Regarded as one of the best defensive point guards in NBA history. Made everyone around him ridiculously better during his prime (see Kenyon Martin). His trade to the New Jersey Nets for Stephen Marbury turned the Nets into an Eastern Conference Champion (not a real title contender, as we’ll get to). One of the greatest passers in NBA history. His impressive steal and assist numbers are only second to John Stockton, and Kidd got the assists in an era that was pretty bad for offense (and he didn’t have a Karl Malone either).
Minuses: His defensive accolades somewhat overrated him on that end. It doesn’t mean he wasn’t really really good, but you never really heard the words “let’s put Jason Kidd on him to lock him down” like you would with Gary Payton. His defensive reputation carried him through the later 00s (although he still got a lot of steals). One of the worst outside shooters in NBA history, which is what held him back as a true top tier player. If it wasn’t for one of the weakest stretches of talent in NBA history and especially in the Eastern Conference, Kidd’s Nets would have never even sniffed the NBA Finals. Surprisingly not a big Advanced Metrics guy, although that’s because of his bad shooting. Lastly, was horribly outplayed by Chauncey Billups in Game 7 of the 2004 Semi-Finals against the Pistons (22 PTS, 7 AST for Billups, 0 PTS, 7 AST for Kidd). It also can’t be forgotten how badly Chris Paul embarrassed him in the 2008 First Round either.
Still, Kidd was pretty much the best point guard of the early 2000s. He was a selfless point guard who made everyone around him better at a time where it seemed no one was doing that, and he got to two Finals as a result. That’s good enough for the Top 40.
#39. Paul Pierce
Resume
NBA Finals MVP: 1x (’08)
NBA All-2nd Team: 1x (‘09)
NBA All-3rd Team: 3x (’02, ’03, ’08)
NBA All-Rookie 1st Team: 1x (’99)
NBA All-Star: 10x (’02, ’03, ’04, ’05, ’06, ’08. ’09, ’10, ’11, ‘12)
NBA Points Leader: 1x (’02)
NBA Top 10 Points: 5x (’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ‘06)
NBA Top 10 Steals: 5x (’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’05)
NBA Top 10 Win Shares: 4x (’02, ’05, ’08, ‘11)
NBA Top 10 WS/48: 1x (‘08)
NBA Career Points: 16th
NBA Career Steals: 11th
NBA Career Win Shares: 21st
2nd Best Player on One Champion: ’08 Celtics
2nd Best Player on One Runner-Up: ’10 Celtcs
Simmons Pyramid Ranking (2010): 47th
Slam Magazine 500 Ranking (2011): 77th
Pierce is a tricky player to place. He never seemed to be iconic or anything, but was still good enough to nearly get a dreadful Celtics team to the NBA Finals in 2002, and later re-invented his game in order to co-exist with Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen to win his first NBA Title. Pierce went from being what seemed to be a selfish 25 PPG a game guy to someone who gave up shots and became a decent defensive player to win a title. Isn’t that what it’s all about?
I can’t state enough with how much the 2008 NBA Playoffs helped Pierce here. With LeBron singlehandedly looking to defend his Eastern Conference crown and shock the 66 win Celtics in Round 2 (LeBron Game 7: 45-5-6), Pierce went toe to toe with him scoring 41 of his own. Pierce later helped in shutting down Kobe and won Finals MVP. Yeah, Garnett was the best player on the team, but Pierce willed them there.
The rest of his resume is pretty decent as well. Some good scoring years (at one time Kobe, McGrady and Pierce could be spoken about in the same breath) early on and now some good veteran years (Pierce’s shot against Atlanta in the playoffs last year was sick…too bad Nene can’t rebound). 39 might seem high, but Pierce’s career seems to be what basketball is all about.
#38: Allen Iverson
Resume
NBA MVP: 1x (’01)
NBA All-1st Team: 3x (’99, ’01, ‘05)
NBA All-2nd Team: 3x (’00, ’02, ‘03)
NBA All-3rd Team: 1x (’06)
NBA Rookie of the Year: 1x (’97)
NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2x (’01, ’05)
NBA All-Star: 11x (’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ’05, ’06, ’07, ’08, ’09, ‘10)
NBA Points Leader: 1x (’05)
NBA Steals Leader: 2x (’03, ‘05)
NBA Top 10 Points: 11x (’97, ’98, ’99, ’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’05, ’06, ’07, ‘08)
NBA Top 10 Steals: 10x (’97, ’98, ’99, ’00, ’01, ’02, ’03, ’05, ’06, ’08)
NBA Top 10 Assists: 3x (’05, ’06, ’08)
NBA Top 10 Win Shares: 3x (’99, ’01, ‘08)
NBA Career Points: 28th
NBA Career Steals: 12th
NBA Career Assists: 43rd
Best Player on One Runner-Ups: ’01 76ers
Simmons Pyramid Ranking (2010): 37th
Slam Magazine 500 Ranking (2011): 40th
There’s generally two thoughts about Iverson. Either he’s an overrated shoot first/low percentage volume scorer or he’s perhaps the greatest and toughest (and fastest) guy ever to be on the basketball court. I generally go with the latter with a dash of the former. Like Kidd, Iverson peaked at a time where complex offensive schemes were at an all-time low in the NBA. Iverson was able to master hero ball and while his Advanced stats didn’t show it, the 76ers seemed to be a lot worse without him. His 2001 MVP case is a bit weak…it should probably be Shaq’s, but he proved he was at least somewhat worthy by dragging his crappy team to the 2001 NBA Finals (although they probably should have lost to Milwaukee). His Game 1 performance in those Finals give his career extra weight (48 PTS, leading the Sixers to the only playoff win against the 2001 Lakers) and the Sixers at least hung around in some of those games.
Like Kidd, Iverson probably maximized his potential and took advantage of his era. And like Kidd, when that era ended his usefulness as a top star did too.
#37: Gary Payton
Resume
NBA All-1st Team: 2x (’98, ’00)
NBA All-2nd Team: 5x (’95, ’96, ’97, ’99, ‘02)
NBA All-3rd Team: 2x (’94, ’01)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 1x (’96)
NBA All-Defensive 1st Team: 9x (’94, ’95, ’96, ’97, ’98, ’99, ’00, ’01, ’02)
NBA All-Star: 9x (’94, ’95, ’96, ’97, ’98, ’00, ’01, ’02, ‘03)
NBA Assists Leader: 1x (’00)
NBA Steals Leader: 1x (‘96)
NBA Top 10 Points: 4x (’97, ’99, ’00, ‘02)
NBA Top 10 Steals: 9x (’91, ’93, ’94, ’95, ’96, ’97, ’98, ’99, ‘00)
NBA Top 10 Assists: 9x (’96, ’97, ’98, ’99, ’00, ’01, ’02, ‘03)
NBA Top 10 Win Shares: 7x (’95, ’96, ’97, ’98, ’99, ’00, ‘02)
Top 10 WS/48: 2x (’98, ’00)
NBA Career Points: 30th
NBA Career Steals: 4th
NBA Career Assists: 8th
Role Player on One Champion: ’06 Heat
Best Player on One Runner-Up: ’96 Sonics
Starter on One Runner-Up: ’04 Lakers
Simmons Pyramid Ranking (2010): 41st
Slam Magazine 500 Ranking (2011): 39th
A great What-If for Payton: What if George Karl switched Payton onto Michael Jordan earlier in the 1996 NBA Finals? Once that switch was made, the Sonics took two straight from the Bulls and had chances to get to Game 7. Not surprisingly, it’s Jordan’s worst Finals performance.
Unlike Kidd, Gary Payton with a destructive defensive player. He absolutely wrecked John Stockton in the ’96 Conference Finals. He slowed Jordan down significantly. He was one of the few non big men to win Defensive Player of the Year. If you made me make an all-time Defensive Team, Payton would be my point guard hands down.
He was a great offensive player as well, although he was exposed for needing a system that tailored to his game when he ended up on the 2004 Lakers (and had to “share” with Kobe). In a sense, he’s like Iverson that way.
There are two reasons why Payton never won a title as the top guy on his team. The first has to do with him. He was a coach killer and routinely sold players out. The second was bad luck, as his Shawn Kemp lost his mind and Vin Baker ended up as an alcoholic. Those are the only elite low post threats Payton ever had in his prime. If Kemp didn’t lose his marbles and Baker stayed healthy, perhaps the Sonics get back into the Finals and win a title. But we’ll never know.
#36. Patrick Ewing
Resume
NBA All-1st Team: 1x (‘90)
NBA All-2nd Team: 6x (’88, ’89, 91, ’92, ’93, ‘97)
NBA All-Defensive 2nd Team: 3x (’88, ’89, ‘92)
NBA Rookie of the Year: 1x (’86)
NBA All-Rookie 1st Team: 1x (’86)
NBA All-Star: 11x (’86, ’88, ’89, ’90, ’91, ’92, ’93, ’94, ’95, ’96, ‘97)
NBA Defensive Rating Leader: 2x (’93, ’94)
NBA Defensive Win Share Leader: 3x (’93, ’94, ’97)
NBA Top 10 Points: 8x (’90, ’91, ’92, ’93, ’94, ’95, ’96, ’97)
NBA Top 10 Rebounds: 8x (’90, ’91, ’92, ’93, ’94, ’95, ’96, ’97)
NBA Top 10 Blocks: 11x (’88, ’89, ’90, ’91, ’92, ’93, ’94, ’95, ’96, ’97, ‘99)
NBA Top 10 Win Shares: 5x (’89, ’90, ’92, ’93, ‘94)
NBA Top 10 WS/48: 2x (’90, ‘94)
NBA Top 10 Defensive Rating: 11x (’88, ’90, ’91, ’92, ’93, ’94, ’95, ’96, ’97, ’98, ’99, ’00)
NBA Career Points: 21st
NBA Career Rebounds: 24th
NBA Career Blocks: 7th
NBA Career Win Shares: 35th
NBA Career Defensive Win Shares: 9th
NBA Career Defensive Rating: 20th
Best Player on Two Runner-Ups: ’94 Knicks, ’99 Knicks
Simmons Pyramid Ranking (2010): 40th
Slam Magazine 500 Ranking (2011): 37th
Arguably exhibit A for “player denied a Championship because of Michael Jordan”. Ewing was both overrated and underrated in different ways. He was overrated because at one time fans put him in that upper tier of NBA players, up there with Jordan, Olajuwon, Malone, Barkley etc., and he was never quite there. He was a good but not great offensive force, capable of putting up the occasional big game (like his 44-13-5-7 game against Boston in Round 1 of the 1990 playoffs…or even his 45-13 against Detroit one round later) but never consistently able to do it. He couldn’t pass well and although his rebounding totals are good, he was never great at that either. To be fair, Ewing lost his peak athleticism early in his career (hence the kneepads). Ewing was a very good player who was never great offensively. But you could build a title contender around him for sure. He was “New York popular”.
What’s forgotten about Ewing was that he was a destructive defensive player that happened to come at a time where Dikembe Mutombo, Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson all transcended what being a defensive center meant. As a result Ewing doesn’t have the gaudy all-Defensive team nods. But if his career were a few years earlier, he would have done well dealing with Moses and Kareem (just like Olajuwon did in 1986).
But if it weren’t for Michael and Hakeem, Ewing would have captured the title at least once. Jordan’s Bulls took out Ewing’s Knicks in 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993 and 1996. In 1992 and 1993, the Knicks gave Jordan all he could handle (a seven game series in 1992 and a six gamer that the Knicks led 2-0 in 1993) and could have won the title (definitely in 1992). Of course, Ewing had his chance in ’94, but Olajuwon destroyed him, so there’s that (although if John Starks didn’t play horribly, the Knicks still win the title with Ewing).
There’s always the Bill SImmons “Ewing Theory”. The theory Is that the Knicks played better without Ewing than with him. And while that was definitely true in 1999 (when he got hurt and the Marcus Camby addition got them to the Finals), I doubt it’s true earlier. The idea behind it is that a star player gets a lot of extraordinary attention without winning anything and then someone leaves the team in some way. Everyone expects the team to fall apart, but instead they play even better. See TIki Barber for the 2007 Giants or even the Linsanity era for Carmelo Anthony (or that the Nuggets went 59-23 the next year without him). That fit Ewing perfectly. It’s a shame because it’s easy to forget that Patrick Ewing was really good.
#35. Kevin Durant
Resume
NBA MVP: 1x (’14)
NBA All-1st Team: 5x (’10, ’11, ’12, ’13, ‘14)
NBA Rookie of the Year: 1x (’08)
NBA All-Rookie 1st Team: 1x (’08)
NBA All-Star: 6x (’10, ’11, ’12, ’13, ’14, ’15)
NBA Points Leader: 5x (’10, ’11, ’12, ’13, ’14)
NBA Win Share Leader: 1x (‘14)
NBA WS/48 Leader: 1x (’14)
NBA PER Leader: 1x (’14)
NBA Top 5 Points: 6x (’09, ’10, ’11, ’12, ’13, ’14)
NBA Top 10 Win Shares: 5x (’10, ’11, ’12, ’13, ’14)
NBA Top 10 WS/48: 4x (’10, ’12, ’13, ‘14)
Best Player on One Runner-Ups: ’12 Thunder
Simmons Pyramid Ranking (2010): Not Ranked
Slam Magazine 500 Ranking (2011): Not Ranked
It’s not even close to too early yet for Durant. Durant’s already an offensive savant, efficiently leading the league in scoring for five years. His 2014 MVP campaign would be considered the 9th best via WS/48 in the three point era, only behind LeBron, Jordan and David Robinson. The 2012 Thunder were so good led by Durant that I thought there was a legitimate chance they were winning the title…and then Durant dropped 36 in his first Finals game and the Thunder stole Game 1. Durant’s 2012 Finals stats: 30.6 PPG, 6 RPG, 54.8% FG.
I’d rather have five elite years from Durant than 8 or 9 very good years from someone like Ewing.
#34. Dave Cowens
Resume
NBA MVP: 1x (’73)
NBA All-2nd Team: 3x (’73, ’75, ‘76)
NBA All-Defensive 1st Team: 1x (’76)
NBA All-Defensive 2nd Team: 2x (’75, ’80)
NBA Rookie of the Year: 1x (’71)
NBA All-Rookie 1st Team: 1x (’71)
NBA All-Star Game MVP: 1x (’73)
NBA All-Star: 8x (’72, ’73, ’74, ’75, ’76, ’77, ’78, ’79, ‘80)
NBA Defensive Win Share Leader: 1x (’73)
NBA Top 10 Rebounds: 7x (’71, ’72, ’73, ’74, ’75, ’76, ’78)
NBA Top 10 Win Shares: 3x (’73, ’76, ’78)
NBA Top 10 WS/48: 2x (’75, ’76)
NBA Top 10 Defensive Win Shares: 7x (’71, ’72, ’73, ’74, ’75, ’76, ’78)
Best Player on Two Champions: ’74 Celtics, ’76 Celtics
Simmons Pyramid Ranking (2010): 31st
Slam Magazine 500 Ranking (2011): 44th
The big arguments in favor of Cowens are that he was the best guy on two title teams (and he had to beat Kareem for one of them) and his 1973 MVP (which probably should have been Kareem’s). Cowens of course had to contend with Kareem and Walton for any All-NBA nods, which is why he doesn’t have many of them. He bridged the Celtics from the Russell era to the Bird era, won a couple of championship and became one of the most popular Celtics of all time (although, he’s largely forgotten for whatever reason to anyone else). I can’t put him much higher than this as despite the two titles, it wasn’t like he got them by himself (Havilcek) and he wasn’t really in the best center of the 70s discussion.
#33. Steve Nash
Resume
NBA MVP: 2x (’05, ’06)
NBA All-1st Team: 3x (’05, ’06, ’07)
NBA All-2nd Team: 2x (’08, ‘10)
NBA All-3rd Team: (‘’02, ’03)
NBA All-Star: 8x (’02, ’03, ’05, ’06, ’07, ’08, ’10, ‘12)
NBA Assists Leader: 6x (’05, ’06, ’07, ’10, ’11)
NBA FT% Leader: 2x (’06, ’10)
NBA Top 10 Assists: 11x (’02, ’03, ’04, ’05, ’06, ’07, ’08, ’09, ’10, ’11, ‘12)
NBA Top 6 FT%: 13x (’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ’05, ’06, ’07, ’08, ’09, ’10, ’11, ’12)
NBA Top 10 Win Shares: 3x (’03, ’06, ‘07)
NBA Top 10 WS/48: 4x (’03, ’05, ’06, ‘07)
NBA Top 10 Offensive Win Shares: 9x (’02, ’03, ’04, ’05, ’06, ’07, ’08, ’09, ‘10)
NBA Top 10 Offensive Rating: 8x (’01, ’02, ’03, ’04, ’05, ’06, ’07, ’10)
NBA Career Assists: 3rd
NBA Career FT%: 1st
NBA Career 3P%: 10th
NBA Career Offensive Rating: 10th
NBA Career Offensive Win Shares: 14th
Simmons Pyramid Ranking (2010): 36th
Slam Magazine 500 Ranking (2011): 50th
Of anyone that benefitted from the 2004-2005 rule changes that barred hand-checking, Nash was #1. This rule transformed him from a very good point guard to league MVP. Had Mark Cuban and the Mavericks had the foresight to realize this, Dallas might have had a late 2000s dynasty (although Nash’s defense was always an issue).
How do we justify Nash being as high as 33rd? Here’s a lengthy pro-con list for Nash.
Pros:
Was the 2nd best player on teams that won 53, 57, 60 and 52 games. Now if you want to give all the credit to Dirk Nowitzki that’s fine. But then he transformed the Suns and was the best player on teams that won 62, 54 (after losing Amar’e Stoudemire), 61, 55, 46, and 54 games. That’s pretty impressive. Before the 62-20 season, the Suns were 29-53.
Won two straight MVPs, and there’s a good argument to be made that he should have been the 2007 MVP over Nowitzki.
Dragged the 2010 Suns to the Conference Finals and was two games away from the Finals. The 2010 Suns were not considered a good team.
His style of play turned out to be the prototype for Stephen Curry and the Golden State Warriors.
Cons:
Could never get to the NBA Finals. While he wasn’t beating the Spurs in 2005, he had legitimate shots in 2006 (lost to Dallas in the WCF), 2007 (Robert Horry checked him into a table, which led to several Suns suspensions and is a classic Donaghy game) and 2010 (where the Lakers couldn’t stop him…but his team wasn’t talented enough).
On the all-time worst defensive players team.
His 2005 MVP should have gone to Shaquille O’Neal. His 2006 MVP can go back and forth. It was impressive that the Suns were just as good without Ama’re. But still, Kobe Bryant had an 81 point game, a 62 point game and dragged a horrid Lakers team to the Western playoffs. LeBron is also a solid choice for 2006 MVP.
While the Suns got a lot better when Nash joined…the Mavericks also seemingly got better, making the Finals just two seasons later.
For me, re-inventing the game from the point guard position is going to justify his high ranking. Yeah, he couldn’t beat Duncan, he couldn’t beat Kobe, he couldn’t beat Nowitzki. But he was really really good.
#32. Kevin McHale
Resume
NBA Sixth Man of the Year: 2x (’84, ’85)
NBA All-1st Team: 1x (‘87)
NBA All-Defensive 1st Team: 3x (’86, ’87, ’88)
NBA All-Defensive 2nd Team: 3x (’83, ’89, ’90)
NBA All-Rookie 1st Team: 1x (’81)
NBA All-Star: 7x (’84, ’86, ’87, ’88, ’89, ’90, ’91)
NBA FG% Leader: 2x (’87, ‘88)
NBA Offensive Rating Leader: 1x (’88)
NBA Top 10 Points: 1x (’87)
NBA Top 10 Blocks: 4x (’81, ’82, ’83, ’87)
NBA Top 10 Win Shares: 5x (’84, ’85, ’86, ’87, ’88)
NBA Top 10 WS/48: 5x (’84, ’85, ’86, ’87, ’88)
NBA Career Blocks: 26th
NBA Career FG%: 12th
2nd Best Player on One Champion: ’86 Celtics
6th Man For Two Champions: ’81 Celtics, ’84 Celtics
2nd Best Player on Two Runner-Ups: ’85 Celtics, ’87 Celtics
Simmons Pyramid Ranking (2010): 35th
Slam Magazine 500 Ranking (2011): 26th
Probably the 3rd greatest second banana of all-time behind Scottie Pippen and young Kobe. What makes McHale great is that he took a page out of the Chris Bosh and Pau Gasol playbook (well, they took a page out of his really) and gladly played a supporting role to a clear alpha dog in Larry Bird. His 1987 season showed that he could have been a legitimate 1st team guy year in and year out (Bird even thought McHale might have been the MVP that year), but he wasn’t wired that way and was glad to take a backseat to Bird (which frustrated Bird to no end).
McHale is probably the greatest post player of all time as well. 60% FG on just crazy different post combinations. In addition to that, he was one of the best defensive players of his era and a possible starter on the all-time defense team.
#31. Walt Frazier
Resume
NBA All-1st Team: 4x (’70, ’72, ’74, ’75)
NBA All-2nd Team: 2x (’71, ’73)
NBA All-Defensive 1st Team: 7x (’69, ’70, ’71, ’72, ’73, ’74, ‘75)
NBA All-Rookie 1st Team: 1x (’68)
NBA All-Star Game MVP: 1x (’75)
NBA All-Star: 7x (’70, ’71, ’72, ’73, ’74, ’75, ’76)
NBA WS/48 Leader: 1x (’70)
NBA Top 10 Assists: 6x (’69, ’70, ’71, ’72, ’74, ‘75)
NBA Top 10 Steals: 2x (’74, ‘75)
NBA Top 7 Win Shares: 7x (’69, ’70, ’71, ’72, ’73, ’74, ‘75)
NBA Top 6 WS/48: 5x (’69, ’70, ’71, ’72, ‘73)
Best Player on One Champion: ’73 Knicks
2nd Best Player on One Champion: ’70 Knicks
Best Player on One Runner-Up: ’72 Knicks
Simmons Pyramid Ranking (2010): 32nd
Slam Magazine 500 Ranking (2011): 36th
Regarded as one of the best defensive guards of all time. Also regarded as one of the best big game guards of all time (many would put him in the class with Jordan). In Game 7 of the 1970 NBA Finals he put up 36 points, 19 assists, 7 rebounds and 5 steals against Jerry West and the Lakers. Also can’t be forgotten Willis Reed was hurt for that game (“Here Comes Willis!”).
Why is Frazier this low then? Wasn’t a great shooter so the lack of a three point line in his era helped. His career was pretty short as a top guy.
Still, of all the New York Knicks of all time, Frazier is probably the favorite and the player where fans knew they could win the title with him. And they did twice.
